“Part II
Now... back to GY:
--------------------
A sequestered docks estate where no-one's 'allowed' (understandably) unless they have Business there. A Fishing Heritage Centre with the one examplar rotting in the water and the other barely held together by its paint. A desolate second-rate 20-yr-life retail 'park' on the most windswept (North-Easter) stretch of open space in Christendom (and all the other -doms). It is A Long Way to Sainsbury's from the 'bus station' for any less-than-alacritous pensioner ...and a former main street with back entrances to 'shops' with frontages in a global-type mall that could be anywhere -- and, indeed, IS everywhere.

Fond memories of crowded streets where traffic knew its place, narrow enough to keep the worst rain and wind off; a Bull Ring redolent of a cattle market and speculative horrifying 'schoolboy' thoughts of bull-baiting (tho' not exactly 'Hemingway style'), surrounded by small affordable shops and sociable bars; a Market Place with a Corn Exchange and memories of the explanation of 'paying on the nail' (and looking for 'the nail') and three-bar pubs (smoke room for the gents, lounge for the ladies and 'public' for those wanting darts, skittles and spit-and-sawdust) with four-ale bars; and streets with historic names like Flotter Gate, Bethlem and Red Hill... A New Market (Central Market later) with a market clock in clock tower (where's similar in the 'bus station' and does Marks' & Spencer's 'still stand at ten to three'?) A railway station with 'through' trains every three or four hours linking us to our capital city with breakfast cars, dining cars and 'refreshment' cars according to the time of day.

Is it all a dream, condensed into a decrepit, disused, Ice House, inaccessible to the public?

At least we've got the p.s. Lincoln Castle, our sole surviving link with our recent past and the outside world... For now!!

Grimsby, Grand Plan -- where are you!!??
Go to p.s.lincoln.castle@googlemail.com !”

“To put things in a 'public' context (at risk of being accused of drawing only on me imagination -- being a Walter Mitty, I think is the phrase) it might be useful to draw on experiences in other 'fishing ports'.

A regular visitor to other "greatest/biggest/most-important fishing ports in the world" retains good memories of interesting places: Seattle -- the vast multi-storey public aquarium, watching the salmon fleet arrive/depart (access freely available to the general public); Boston (Massachusetts, of course) -- the Fish Market (access available to the general public), Faneuil Hall (the old market building, still famously used by very interesting traders), the Pilgrim Trail... the Boston Tea Party (on a replica of the original ship -- 'no taxation without representation!') and Pier 4 (with an interesting swing bridge en route) in the commercial docks area (public access to the wharves -- Pier 4 Restaurant... V.G.), Boston Aquarium, but not 'Cheers', a large bar, where nobody knows your name and wants a big tip; and (lets keep the list short) Vigo in Spain (actually making GY look like 'a bit dropped off') -- not really the fish docks or the shipyards (incl. oil rig construction), or the commercial port or the international fisheries trade fair; better was the opportunity (à la Boulogne-sur-Mer -- that other 'European Food Town'/Seaside) to relax (NOT "revel") in small wine bars with interesting seafood (main-menu or tapas); seeing the town's ancient walls and being regaled with tales of "that pirate, Drake, suffering the walls with his cannonades!" and seeing the holes made by the cannonballs (rounds still there -- not sent for scrap with old street signs); no space to deal with Portland, Oregon -- or Cap'n Ahab's home port of New Bedford. Did actually STAY in The Bourne Counting House, on the quayside, owned (historically) by one of the leading whaling masters (or is it all in me mind!?)... and dare one even mention Kingston-upon-Hull in this context? Have THEY demolished Land of Green Ginger yet? Do THEY hide their ship-model collection?

More follows as Part II because of possible 'post-length' limitations...”

“Yes, indeed, Tugboat... and most 'regeneration' isn't necessarily beneficial to local firms. It's only in 'refurbishment' that local craftsmen and other expert workers are likely to benefit. If ABP were to be of a persuasion to use the Ice House -- as accommodation (ultimately) for, say, their relocating head office personnel -- they'd be likely to employ their own approved architects, designers, civil engineers and building contractors. Local workers will be already fulfilling needs extant, and additional work will go elsewhere.

I should have added earlier, that for those of you who couldn't attend either meeting of the Civic Society, if you use the name 'Grimsby Ice House' in Google, you'll be rewarded by a good portfolio of still photographs at '28dayslater - The UK UE Urbex Urban Exploration Forums'.

-- should add that if you use the email address I gave below for access to the Paddle Steamer Lincoln Castle Trust, you'll be equally well rewarded with an evocative portfolio of colour photographs showing the p.s. Lincoln Castle in action, inside and out.

There's also a gallery of Ice House pictures at 'lincolnshireautomeets' early on in the list. Pass to you, chaps. The pictures give a little idea of what might be involved in the 'regeneration' of the Ice House.”

“"Ending is better than mending". So runs the classic line from Aldous Huxley's 1931 classic "Brave New World". The book charts the consumerist society which is fooled into destroying perfectly seviceable items by a conniving government in order to secure jobs and to give the appearance of full employment. Perhaps the Council has been reading the book. If building work is going on, albeit for a short while, it gives the appearance of development. But it's not very pretty, is it? And it doesn't have any soul, does it? And it won't win awards, will it? And it isn't something to be proud of, is it?”

“Grimbarian -- and to whom it may concern...

Exactly. That was my point about Corporation Bridge and the p.s. Lincoln Castle. We also have, in the West Haven, buildings that belong where they are. Knock 'em down and we have what's alongside almost the whole of the Alexandra Dock - South Arm: that second-class retail estate called "regeneration" -- which really does 'turn on' everybody. Hah!

Let's look beyond our nose-ends and see what really counts as Grimland. We're fast reaching the stage where our oldest link with our past and tradition is t'Town 'all and the neo-Georgian council building... I wonder why.

Time was, in the Alexandra Dock (The Haven) and the West Haven, there were innumerable activities of interest to all...

But, 'Down Dock' is merely work. Most of us not working there saw little of it. It's not of global significance.

See The Grimsby Telegraph and its 'Bygones' for more...

Yrs aye...”

“They should knock it down. Why spend £10 million restoring a building that is never going to be self-sustainable? It will never attract enough money from tourism to keep it going and will need continuous cash injections to keep it afloat. They should salvage the machinery and put it into storage until they work out what to do with it, but as for the rest, send in the demolition team. We have long stretches of waterfront and large areas of docklands that should be regenerated to create new jobs, businesses and housing. This is exactly what other cities and towns like ours are doing, but the only thing our backwards council do is waste money on various committees and artists impressions each year.”

“Warrior; and (lucky) P&K; and Tugboat --

Couldn't agree more. Shades of the Garden -st signal box! Though the machinery may be interesting to the specialist; the building is in such disrepair that it's amazing that the Health & Safety Executive hasn't whacked a 'Keep Clear' notice on it and put a fence round it. It LOOKS as if it would need taking down, brick-by-numbered-brick for total rebuilding to make it suitable for anything but the rats and seagulls now in possession.

Not too sure where The Grimsby Telegraph's "most famous buildings" comes from -- even the Dock Tower, though significant architecturally, is a bit short on 'fame' outside this area, beyond the extremely knowledgeable.

Would we keep Grimsby's the last surviving office block? The Ice House is not of great significance when compared with most of Grimsby that's been destroyed. Where is the benefit in spending a king's ransome on a building that nobody will be able to go to see? Best save the money for ensuring that Corporation Bridge, maybe the finest Scherzer-style rolling lift bridge extant doesn't get sold for scrap.. Oh dear, haven¿t you heard!!?? Has anybody but me seen the others? That is a fine bridge... and far more significant than the Ice House -- which loses a lot of its historical significance when people refer to it as "the Ice Factory".

I do sometimes wonder...
Yrs aye..”

“There is a groundswell of opinion that this is yet another step in the direction of the creation of Anywhereville-by-the sea. The Civic Society was right to open up the debate, as all the town will have left soon is its heritage in a museum. Where places like Ironbridge, the Black Country Museum and the Albert Dock have seen opportunity to develop a thriving tourist industry, Grimsby's (lack of) planning department has allowed haphazard, piecemeal and uncoordinated development. At a time when European money would have been available for such tourist schemes, the local MP was hardly bothering himself to obtain some and secure the town's future. If you care to access the website The Public Whip, which records Mr Mitchell's attendance in Westminster, you wil find that he took part in 51.1% of the votes since 2005 (I accept that there may be valid reasons for a poor show) but interestingly he only joined the Yorkshire and Humberside Regional Select Committee in the Commons on 30 October 2009. He is obviously going to make a huge difference to Grimsby's future in the two minutes of extra time which remain.”

“The Ice Factory was built for a purpose, that purpose no longer exists. So knock it down and use the space for some thing worthwhile. But not more 'high rise mega buck's flats.'”

“Ice House

Well all well and good to refurbish it, knock it down, whatever.

It is ABP's problem and the Heritage people.

Any extra money available should be channelled into the Town. Not to be left to the Council to sort it out they are useless, look at the roadworks, it's taking forever , Old Market knocked to bits years ago, all the character of Grimsby has gone.

Up town is dead on a night, the White Hart, renamed now shut, and all the rest of town.

Empty shops in the precinct, the money has gone from Grimsby, the docks a distribution place for fish, what else is manufactured here, with plenty of well payed employees? Nothing

The work in the town, where is it, any work of a large scale is done by outsiders, roadworks by others, Buildings by others,

Work in the town, where has it all gone,

Ship Repairs gone, Titans Shut, Bank Factories all automated or closed.

Thousands of skilled workers with nowhere to work in town, the only work is out of town.

I can see today why the rest of the country call Grimsby, Grim......

The Building of schools by others, all from out of town, money earned here being spent elsewhere,

So why are people still here, the Ice House is Derelict just like the rst of the area, Grim-sby”