“I commented a report on the A180 resurfacing and had an incidental note about the crash barriers which I think is relevent to this report.

The M180's old steel crash barriers were replaced by concrete walls about 2-3 yrs ago, it is a pity that the old steel barriers could not be recycled for use on the Laceby by-pass. I once saw an accident where a car (at way below the speed limit) hit black ice on the westbound carriageway on the curved hill part, crossed the central reservation but managing to avoid collision, a crash barrier would have contained the skid.

I also remember a fatal crash which closed this road (my sympathies in advance for the deceased relations), a car was overtaking a set of cars when one of the cars being overtaken did not use the mirror signal manoeuvre method; the car pulled out without looking which pushed the overtaking car into a lampost with fatal results. The location was not at the junctions, but in between them. The report on this awful incident did not suggest that any car was travelling over the posted speed limit, so speed was not a factor - more one of careless driving. A crash barrier would have reduced the risk of a fatality.

The officials who planned this camera scheme are no doubt the same ones who decided to put in the useless white lines x-hatching on Bradley X-Roads. Look how long that lasted and look at how much of our money was wasted. It only caused confusion which in effect means inherently unsafe.

Without sounding too churlish, our local government is bereft of creative ideas. They should've tapped up the HA to procure those secondhand crash barriers and got them installed on the by-pass.”

“You guys don't give these 'mindless yobs' enough credit, they clearly burnt the camera down so that they could continue to speed down the bypass without fear of retribution - a well thought out, albeit not particularly moral plan.

I fail to see how to two girls that got killed is even remotely relevant, they were hit by a drunk driver - do you really think a drunk driver cares about speed cameras? Of course not.

Kindly stop acting like speed cameras will solve all of the problems of the Bypass, because, guess what, they won't.”

“Paul, H, fair point, but my take is that psychology was the true causation ok so we differ on this point. Repeat criminal offenders ie serial drunk driver - too much booze and yobbish machismo ends up with someone getting hurt or worse. As ABD bloke puts it the "usual suspects".

As for rentamob it appears from at least two of them appear to be one writer, the other appears to be all over the place disagreeing then agreeing - could be the same writer??. In fact it reminds me of previous GT report on the proposals for Laceby By-Pass cameras and 50 mph, Someone made general disparging comments who ended up attacking Rob, Biker, Steve, Jimbo, the ABD bloke and perhaps Cratchet, the rants had a similar writing style in terms of debating argument. I'd have more time for him if he stuck to his usual tag.

Paul, since you are no doubt familiar with the A1, this has junctions identical to the by-pass, so if Grimsby powers that be had their way on the A1, it would have cameras and 50 mph limit all the way! What the A1 does have is crash barriers on the central reservation and roundabouts where there are towns and large villages.”

“If the authorities had simply erected a speed camera and done nothing else following this tragic accident, then the likes of Jim, Percy and Graham would have a legitimate argument. One I would disagree with, but legitimate none the less.

The accident had been caused by two people breaking the law, and the camera would prosecute such people.

I could disagree with that, stating that it was drink and racing that caused the crash not the speed, but the debate would be a relevant.

However this is not the case - the authorities have lowered the speed limit from 70mph to 50mph as well as erecting the cameras.

This means that people who, at the time of the accident, were perfectly safe drivers, behaving within the law in an exemplary manner, have now been "redefined" as wicked, rabid speeders whose actions have to be curbed.

This is oppression, pure and simple. It always starts the same way. Using an extreme action by a minority to tar others with the same brush.

The nazi propaganda machine always blamed the countries they invaded for starting the war - same thing here.

Then you change the law so that normal behaviour by the target group is illegal. Then they are "criminals" and can be dealt with accordingly. After this, you bring out more and more regulations, making the lives of these people more and more difficult. But you do it one small step at a time, so they dont notice their freedom disappearing until its too late to do anything about it.

Until now, its only really been feasible to do this in a totalitarian regime and then only to a minority, for reasons of logistics if nothing else.

Speed cameras make it possible to go a long way down this road with a majority of the population - and because the enforcement is automated and faceless it can be done in a democracy, provided the emotional blackmail is there to keep the press quiet, and there are "rentamob" like Jim and Percy scanning the newspapers to vilify anyone who stands up against this.

If you doubt me, look at the new guidelines for local authorities for setting speed limits - to the AVERAGE speed of traffic on the road.

So if you think you have nothing to fear from complying with the law, think again. You soon wont be. If nobody breaks the limit the average is bound to be less than the limit because there will always be a queue following a tractor through the section they reduced to a single lane to cut the average.

This will always allow them to reduce the limit further right until we get back to men with red flags in front of the car.

The purpose of this is to make car use unglamorous and unattractive compared with walking, cycling and public transport. Not my words, but those of Friends of the Earth in 1992.

These people have been weedling their way into government at all levels ever since then with the sole objective of making this happen.

Its not just speed of course, its reducing parking, erecting thousands of traffic lights, filling in underpasses to ensure that urban roads are obstructed.

These people want us out of our cars, they dont care if most of us have no alternative - they just regard motoring as anti social at any speed.

And they are quite happy to use the tragic deaths of two young girls to further their objectives.

This isnt paranoia - it is supported by fact after fact and its all around you to see if you look.

A few of us arent prepared to go quietly into the void. The rest should wake up.”

“Sorry ABD member - What I was trying to say was that the solutions offered by other postings on this story would be more appropriate in this instance. I'm sorry I didn't spell that out in a way that would make you give a polite response.”