Do websites have a right to photograph graves?

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Wednesday, August 08, 2012
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Grimsby Telegraph

WITH the current interest in family history and genealogy, the variety of sites online is no surprise.

Recently, by accident, I came across a website that has digitally photographed gravestones within North and North East Lincolnshire – not unique by any means as the habit of photographing gravestones is one that has been occurring for some years.

Those interested in family history will, of course, argue – perhaps quite rightly – that given that graveyards are deemed to be public areas not only do they have a right to do this but, in fact, they are saving this information for generations to come, given that, as is often the case with old gravestones, over a period in time they may erode.

However, photographing gravestones and benches of our long since departed ancestors is one thing, but should there be a point when the deceased still have close living relatives (ie parents, siblings or offspring) who may feel uncomfortable at the final resting place of their loved one being available for anyone to view, that taking photos becomes inappropriate?

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Or is it a case that what people don't know won't hurt them as to find these photographs you have to look for them, which unless you are interested in the subject you are unlikely to do?

Clearly seeking permission from the families to photograph the vast number of graves is unrealistic, as is banning all photography, but perhaps requests should be made to the parish or local councils or at least they should be made aware that such photography is taking place.

They can then notify those who visit the graveyards by placing a notice.

Certainly in the case of one of the cemeteries that has been documented, no such permission or notification has been received.

Following on from that, do you then have a right to respectfully request that the photographs are removed if you are not happy with them, or should that decision lay with the website owner? Presumptuous as it may sound, I'm willing to bet that most residents who have had the sad task of burying a loved one locally (certainly up to 2007) have no knowledge of these sites.

Perhaps people do not mind, but more importantly perhaps they should have a choice.

Mrs J Sparks, details supplied.

The Telegraph says

An interesting point to make. What do you think? A public site and matter of public record or too personal to be photographed close-up?

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  • Profile image for Leveret2

    by Leveret2

    Friday, September 21 2012, 1:50PM

    “Or, in some cases, not so much with pride as in sorrow and grief (which are altogether different).
    The bereaved chooses whether to erect a memorial stone. She doesn't have a choice where photography intrudes.

    It is not so much for all to see (although all can), as to provide a focal point where a survivor(s) of the deceased may continue to mourn. (Mourning is a private act, despite being in a public place. Hence the importance of keeping a distance and observing a period of time, rather than the location.)

    Or do you think, with Google and Google Earth, that nobody need be accorded any privacy ? You seem to dislike the paparazzo, yet still omit to put limits on photography.”

  • Profile image for kipali

    by kipali

    Friday, September 21 2012, 11:52AM

    “No it's not an advertisement, it's a memorial placed hopefully with pride of a loved one for all to see, be they walking through public cemetery, churchyard or anywhere else including the MANY websites on line.”

  • Profile image for Leveret2

    by Leveret2

    Wednesday, September 19 2012, 5:31PM

    “PPS
    A memorial is not an advertisement.
    L2”

  • Profile image for Leveret2

    by Leveret2

    Wednesday, September 19 2012, 5:28PM

    “PS
    As I said, in my view, you need to put limits on this kind of behaviour; and, so far, this is something you seem unable or unwilling to do. 22 years would be too soon for me.
    L2”

  • Profile image for Leveret2

    by Leveret2

    Wednesday, September 19 2012, 5:24PM

    “If I catch one of the blighters photographing one of my relative's graves they'll hear my voice alright: on a subject they may not know about, but soon will. Thank you very much.”

  • Profile image for 55Phoebe55

    by 55Phoebe55

    Wednesday, September 19 2012, 3:48PM

    “Clearly some people like the sound of their own voice, looking at the telegraph Leveret2 has an opinion on lots of topics. Nothing wrong in that, but I would appreciate it more if he kept his comments to that which he is knowledgable about. The headstone in question is over 22 yrs old.... Hardly papparazzi like photography swooping in at the funeral.
    There are lots of projects all over the world recording monuments for posterity, so hardly a pet project. In fact in England there is a commission to promote the recording and preservation of such.
    I would also reiterate, that I can see nothing wrong in taking a photograph of a publicly displayed monument in a public place. Again, what is the point of the monument but to advertise the life/death of that person.”

  • Profile image for Leveret2

    by Leveret2

    Monday, September 17 2012, 6:50PM

    “Clearly some people think their own pet projects are more important than respect for individual's wishes. Obviously individuals don't count until some generations have passed, when they do.

    I suppose that means these people would see nothing wrong in photographing the stone with the grieving widow still there sobbing by it ? Or, if that's not the case, then perhaps one of them would be good enough to state exactly what limits they would put on their own behaviour; eg, the minute she's gone ? is that alright ?”

  • Profile image for 55Phoebe55

    by 55Phoebe55

    Sunday, September 09 2012, 10:32AM

    “Mrs Sparks could start here

    http://tinyurl.com/9goscxw

  • Profile image for heyitsme

    by heyitsme

    Wednesday, September 05 2012, 1:33AM

    “As a family historian, I cannot emphasize enough the connection one feels to an ancestor -whether recent or long lost - with every document and photograph that comes into possession. It is sad that Mrs. Sparks feels such disdain toward the simple act of memorializing the final resting place of a family member. Genealogists, whether mere hobbyists or professionals, feel a deep abiding need to link past to present and if a photograph of this nature helps, then so be it. There is little difference between the fact that a grave may be seen on a website or merely viewed by strangers who happen to walk by it. Either way, it is the same thing. As long as the grave is not disturbed or violated (and NO genealogist - hobbyist or professional - would do such a thing), what exactly is the harm. Mrs. Sparks - I would invite you to start researching your family tree. Only then will you understand the relevance of your ancestors and the trail they left behind.”

  • Profile image for Leveret2

    by Leveret2

    Wednesday, August 29 2012, 4:13PM

    “No, my point isn't trivial. It's simply another point of view. It doesn't nullify yours.

    If somebody takes a photo of somebody else without first asking, the person photographed may reasonably object (especially if the photographer then publishes it, still without asking; the more especially on a website). The deceased cannot object. The bereaved may or may not wish to object. The memorial tablet may well be the closest the bereaved comes to the deceased. (I didn't say "steals", incidentally; though reasonably I could have.)

    In my own case, I was able to find my Grandfather's grave in a country churchyard. The headstone had fallen over. 85 years on, it hadn't been destroyed. My Grandmother, widowed young, had made an inscription upon it. It was moving: heart-rending yet heartening, at the same time; that was the kind of person she was.

    Imagine the difference had I come across its picture surfing. It would have startled me (by its invasion of my family's privacy). I could even have questioned its authenticity; that's the kind of person I am.

    I am not saying that the work is not well-intentioned; on the contrary, I'm sure that it is. But that doesn't exempt it from criticism. A single rule won't necessarily suit everybody; it's a difficult area, I think, as is the question of privacy generally, nowadays.”

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